Any other? Okay. Like maybe I couldn't I don't have a papercy. I don't think that I can just say, oh I'm gonna have a game merciful. No, you can't, yeah. We can be merciful but not have the gift. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Have you seen that funny? Uh who was the old TV uh TV actor that was the counselor, psychologist? Oh, it's the one before that. It's another generation before that. Oh, I can't. I think if we had another break, I'd come up with it. Is that Bob Newhart, isn't it? Yeah. Because the lady comes in and she wants to, and he says, I charge on, I charge $5 for the first five minutes. And I promise you it won't take you any longer. It won't take any longer than that. So she starts on and watched it. He goes, Stop it. He's like, I'm gonna tell you right now, get ready. And when I do this. That's all you're gonna need. And it's like Tommy and I used to show that to each other. Oh, okay.
Let's pick up the distinctive gifts in the shared purpose and just kind of go over this. I don't want to get too deep, but it's good for us to explain uh some of the things that we were talking about. We'll come back to where we were for just a moment ago, but The five gifts that Paul mentions there that Christ gives to the church, the distinctive gifts with ship with shared purpose, is that there's many things that you could say each of these gifts do, okay? Um, but just for tonight and for the the study, the apostle would really be to I see the apostle really laboring in the foundational aspects of the church. Doesn't mean that a congregation out here that It started, doesn't have Christ preached, but the foundational is to set those things in order. For he said to Titus, I leave you in Crete that you might set in order the things that are lacking and coming behind, and to ordain elders in every city. So Titus would have been an apostle, he would have been a spiritual son, but he would have served as an apostle. So to establish and strengthen the church uh in the gospel, it's really to lay the foundation to see those leaders develop. Not that others don't do this. But to really carry a fatherly burden for the body of Christ and to really care, like Paul says, I am as a father to you. Now we'll look at uh the five to seven functions here in just a minute of that particular gift. But the evangelist uh really obviously is in a dynamic way, uh, affect the church and equipping people to have a burden. When I'm around evangelists, I just think souls. It's like I'm I'm influenced by that. And Philip was an evangelist, wasn't he? We don't know that he traveled because he went back to Caesarea after his trip to Samaria. And apparently he lived there and raised four dollars, four daughters who prophesied. So he must have been in a local congregation raising up four daughters that prophesied, equipping the people as an evangelist. Teachers, uh the teachers really want to explain the word of God. Now there's a gift of teachers, the teaching mentioned in Romans, and then there is the teacher. I believe the teacher actually has, if you want to use the word Greek word, their doma gift or the gift itself as a teacher will actually equip people, not necessarily what they do, but by presence of who they are. Where a gift of teaching, a person can easily explain the word of God. They desire to do that. My old dentist was working on my teeth one day. He was a Sunday school teacher, and he starts teaching me about caring for my teeth and what to do. And I just said to him, You must be a teacher, as he explained every little detail. And he said, Well, yeah, I have the gift of teaching. He's a believer. He said, I have that gift of teaching. So he he he was a he had a gift,
Romans 12, of he that teacheth. And so that's explained there. But these five gifts are those who would equip the saints. A prophet is not just someone who prophesies, but they encourage and strengthen and build up the saints. Uh, you will see examples of this here in just a minute of Agabus and others. Barnabas would have been a prophet. Uh It's obvious that Paul was either a teacher or prophet because it says there are prophets and teachers that gathered in Antioch in
Acts 13, and two of those were sent out, which was Saul and Barnabas, who became known as Paul and Barnabas. So the prophets uh would encourage, strengthen, really calling the people uh to Christ, purity, holiness, and speaking forth the word of God and also a sense of forthelling or foretelling and forthelling. Uh, pastors, they assume uh you might call a long-term personal responsibility for the spiritual welfare. Uh of the people, the care, really, the uh idea of real care would be in here. Not that these don't care, not that these don't care. You you get it. It's like the same way of giving. It's not that we don't all be generous and give, but the gift of giving, it oods out of them. We all should be merciful, but some have a gift of mercy. Are you with me? So you might be able to teach, you might care for people and do the work of. I believe if we're equipped by these five, we ought to be able to do the work of those, not necessarily have the grace to equip others to do it. God may not have called us to do that. One of the things I've noticed true five full ministry leaders. Often have those around them. They're strong. I believe that's particularly true in the apostolic. There's just a strong number of the fivefold ministry that God brings around them. You can't explain it. It's just by gift of grace. It's not because of their special. They do something. It's not. It's just God's grace does that. So there's many things you could add to that.
But let's talk specifically about the commission of the apostle. The apostle itself, on the front of my book, there is a uh ship. And it really in the Greek of the original day, apostle was not a church term. It would have been like an admiral of a fleet of ships that would have been going to a new colony to establish a colony on behalf of the king that sent them. So that was the idea of the commission in the sent one. Paul would have been that sent one with the idea to go and establish the kingdom from which he was sent. So there's a really a call of commissioning upon that. We believe that the authority that an apostle may carry. Is related directly to the commission, which we'll get into here in just a minute. So to be a sent one uh was to go in the authority of the one to whom sent. So Paul was going in the authority of Christ. That's why he says, I'm an apostle by the will of God and by Christ Jesus. So that's why he used that term. He knew that he had been sent and commissioned. I mentioned uh earlier uh why we would believe of the continuation of the apostolic ministry because we make a distinction between The Christ, the apostles of the Lamb, and then post-ascension apostles. They're literally, uh, you could say there's 25 apostles if you count Jesus. There's 12 apostles of the Lamb, and there's at least 12 apostles mentioned in the New Testament that would be under the post-ascension. They're not these at all. Let's look at those as we go through here in just a minute. We have some of them uh that uh will be named. Here's some of them. Matthias. He was numbered among the 11. Some people say, well, he wasn't a real apostle because, you know, no, the Bible says that he stood among the eleven. Scripture says he stood among the leaven. Peter stood among the eleven after Matthias was selected. The Holy Spirit included him. Because Peter stood among the 11, didn't stand among the 12, plus Matthias. So he made up the 12th one. So Matthias was apostle. James, who was not one of the original apostles of the Lamb, was the Lord's brother, didn't become a believer until later. So we see that James had a big part to play as what would be the set man, if you want to use that term, in the church of Jerusalem. You remember when the apostles gathered? Paul came up, and Barnabas came up to Jerusalem for the first church council in
Acts 15 to determine what they were supposed to do because the Jews. And the Gentile Christians were arguing over what the Jews wanted them to take on the law. And so they came up with those four things that the church was supposed to do. And James stands up and he speaks authoritatively after he's heard everybody. So he's like the lead guy there in the house of Jerusalem. But he was seen as apostle because Paul said, I went up to the apostles. I went up to James. Paul, of course, we know he was commissioned. He was called at birth. The scripture says that God has separated me from my mother's womb. In order to form Christ in me that I might preach to the Gentiles. So he knew, though at the time he wouldn't have known, he knew that his calling went back at the time of his birth. And you remember in
Acts 13, the Holy Spirit says, separate unto me Saul and Barnabas, where unto the work I have, past tense, called. So the calling may come long before the commission. Because why? Because the apostolic leader must, as well as all these, but there must be a real proveness. So you a person might get a calling at a young age, but the fullness of the commission may not come until years later. And that's important because I've seen people prophesy. You're an apostle, you're a prophet, and that person gets prideful, thinking it's some kind of elevated thing, and don't know that the apostles are going to be seen as last and seen as the off scum of the earth, and will go some through some of the greatest hardships and sufferings. So, you know, they don't know that. And uh you look at Paul's life, you know, the hardships, the things that he he walked through and went through, and and and God gave him, because the revelation he received, my mind, assigned a demon. It's a thorn in the flesh from Satan. Thorn in the flesh was a messenger from Satan. What's a messenger? It's an angel, it's a demon. That may mess up your theology, but God assigned it to him, lest he become exalted above measure. Now we don't know what the thorn of the flesh is, but I believe in my book I say this, I believe that everywhere Paul went, what was his thorn? They were saying that he was nobody, he was nothing. They were taking authority away from him in Corinth. So he had this buffeting him lest he became exalted above measure. There was the messenger of Satan, false apostles. These demons were speaking through false apostles, accusing Paul of being nobody and taking his work, the labor he'd poured into. Think about the burden. We look back on it 2,000 years ago. And we don't think about it, but if you were called to birth the church among the Gentiles in the early church where there was no church, and every little progress you make, it gets taken away from you. You think you know you would carry the burden for them. He says, Besides all this, I carry the burden of the churches. Well, Barnabas, we know he was an apostle because he was hands relayed on them, commissioned in
Acts 13. And then over at
Acts 14, it mentions and the apostles, referring to these two. So it directly calls Barnabas apostle. So you've got Barnabas, Apollos. Paul planted, Apollos watered. Apollos would have been seen. He called us apostles. He mentions those in
1 Corinthians 4:9. Paul refers to us as apostles. Epiphroditus. He's called the messenger of Philippi. He could have been seen as an apostle to Philippi. His measure was limited. He identified with Paul's gift and therefore came and brought funds, encouraged, and even served to the point of death. That means he identified was a part of the team with Paul in that sense. And so even though the word uh does not say apostle, there it's true that he was a messenger that was commissioned. Titus, to me, obvious, not only does Paul include Timothy and Titus in his letters, we apostles. With writing about Titus, he sends Titus to ordain elders. You see, apostles were doing that. They laid no hands on the ordained elders and set in order everything that's lacking and coming behind and Crete. Then you have two unnamed apostles. They're just called special brothers. They're called uh special messengers. They're just not mentioned. They're in 2 Corinthians, that they were sent with the funds. Timothy was included. It's very clear that there was a plural of apostles in
1 Thessalonians 2. He includes Timothy in this debate and starts off the letter including him and then saying, We came to you tenderly as apostles. So he's including Timothy as apostle. Judas Barcibus, he was a leading man, sent as a representative, and explicitly named prophet in
Acts 15. So he had a broader apostolic function that as he was sent out, so Silas or Sylvanus participated in ascending and strengthening the work. That was part of the work in
1 Thessalonians 4. He traveled with Paul, and of course, was in um Was in prison with him, served prophetically as well. Erastus and Tychagus. These are not well known, but at the same time, they did the designated work and established and sending an assignment that apostles did. Now, in those areas, there's uh Junior and uh we don't have that on there, Junior and Antonicus. That's noted among the apostles. Uh its argument is over whether Junia was a woman or not, or if it was a couple, it probably was a woman, Antronicus and Junior, who was noted among the apostles. Some people say, No, it doesn't mean that it means apostles knew them. But that's not in the context. They were noted and they were well known as apostles. They were noted among the apostles. That's Junia and Antronicus. So
Ephesians 2 declares that the household of God is built upon that foundation. Remember us talking about that? Of the Old Testament prophets and the New Testament apostles. So when Paul names the order. He says in
1 Corinthians 12, things
verse 28, he says, first apostles. Then he says, second, prophets. You may remember what he said third? Teachers. Then after that, it's miracles. Now he's not saying these are first as more important. He's saying first in order. And I would use this example. Order is what he's dealing with, dealing with the body. If you count to ten, one, two, three, four, on the ten, which is more important? Four or two? What is important? The order. You can't count to ten without keeping order. God's dealing with order. Paul's writing about order. So first apostles, secondary prophets. Now, obviously, apostles carried a measure of grace with their commission authoritatively. But he's given an order there. First apostles, secondary prophets, and thirdly teachers. So the ministry really is operates uh in that capacity. Now we do know that Paul did not stay anywhere for very long, maybe three years at the max in one place. But that's not true about all the apostles. So everybody's commission is different. Peter was also an elder.
1 Peter 5. He said, I write to you out you elders, who I am also an elder. So Peter was an elder in Jerusalem. He was a part of it, though he was an apostle, he was an elder. So an apostle can serve as an elder, a prophet can serve as an elder, evangelist, pastor, teacher. Each of those, and I don't know if y'all covered this, probably already covered it, that the elder, those five gifts, is the prerequisite and the grace by which is needed to equip the work of the for the work of the ministry. So an elder does two things a job description is to shepherd, pastor, and to bishop.
1 Peter 5. He says, I'm also an elder, and I tell each of you to Poimain or to shepherd, pastor the flock of those whom you have been made overseers. So that's the word episcopals, bishop. What have we done with the word pastor and bishop? We've made titles out of them. It's actually a function of the elder. So the elder can be an elder's apostle, elder as a prophet, elder's a teacher. Now, naturally, if you're an elder and you're pastoral, you're going to be seen more pastoral. The job of an elder is to pastor. Okay. So you have an elder here. And he is to what? One of those five. And then he is to shepherd. You could well say pastor. He is to pastor and to bishop. Those are two things that an elder does. Obviously, if he is a shepherd, pastor by gift, that's going to flow out of it, isn't it? If he's a teacher, it's going to flow out of that. If he's a prophet, he's probably going to find himself easier bringing correction, exhortation. Really, you know, as a bishop, right? Doing that work. Not that he's not. You see, we let's not that's why I don't like to give a profile. Here's what a prophet does. He just sees things black and white. Somebody says, Yeah, that's with me. I just see things black and white. No, you're just arrogant and proud. So don't create, don't create. You're just harsh and arrogant and proud. You're blaming on being a prophet. Jesus was the prophet. He was tender, wasn't he? So I don't like giving these profiles. Apostles and you know, and somebody I respect, he says, Well. I only regret as an apostle, I should have functioned at times as a general, as a general, when I acted as a father. And other times when I should have acted like a father, I acted as a general. And I'm wanting to scream out: no, you never act like a general. That wasn't in the scriptures. Acting like a general. What's that all about? No, Paul walked in authority, but he didn't change. It's just he walked in that authority, but he's always tender with it. He did what he had to do, but he said, I came to you like a mother. I came to you like a parent, tenderly. And as a father, he came. So it there is a fathering aspect of it that I don't want anyone to see the idea of a harsh apostle. Now, can an apostle have authority? Can he function strongly? Yeah, but not harshly. If you have authority, you don't have to be harsh. The moment you get in the flesh, that's not authority, that's intimidation. You know, if a parent screaming at the child, they have no more authority than if they had their voice low and spoke to them. Right? Okay. Grace and commission. An apostle is an apostle not because he has great gifts, abilities, or anointing, but because he has a divine commission. God gives that. And not every apostle has the same commission. Now, it's in my view, this is why I believe that Paul, though he was not apostle of the Lamb, had the authority to write scriptures. When apostles today function in the apostolic, but they don't have the authority to write scripture. What's our reasoning? How can we reason? Let me tell you how I reason from that. Paul's commission. And his authority equaled. Whatever commission God gives you, he will give you both the ability and the faith to function in that commission. Paul had a commission that nobody else had. What was it? Commissioned to the Gentiles. So in Galatians, he said, When I went up to Jerusalem to present, he said, Peter, who was given a grace to the Jews, had nothing on me. Now he's not being arrogant. In those words, he's saying that he recognized, gave me a right-handed fellowship, because he recognized the grace that was given to him to the Jews was given to me for the Gentiles. So though Peter was used to open the gospel to the Gentiles for an innocent house, he was not commissioned as an apostle to the Gentiles. He was so much not that that Paul had to correct him. You remember when he was acting like he's around the Jews, he acted like the Jews. And when he was around the Gentiles, he acted like Gentiles, they wouldn't have anything to do with the Jews. And Paul had to correct him on that. So that wait a minute, you're being a hypocrite. So he was not called to the Gentiles, obviously. Where Peter, where Paul was called to the Gentiles, he had to have a level of commission to write authoritative scriptures to the churches of the Gentiles. Does that make sense? Where the other apostles would have had that as apostles of the Lamb. So you're a commission. Apostle today might have a commission to a few congregations, might have a commission to a city, might have a commission like Epaphroditus, just to Epiphroditus, just to Philippi. It may be a measured. And so the authority, you know, no one should come in town and say, I'm an apostle over this city. You know, wait a minute. You know, that's arrogance. You don't even have entrance in that city. Who have you labored? Again, it comes by laboring. Paul said, The authority I have is because I've labored Christ with you. I brought the gospel to you. So if somebody hasn't labored among them, if he hasn't labored, they have no authority. You don't have authority just because you have a gift, unless God's giving you an entrance. You've got to have entrance into them. They have to receive you, and you have to labor, and there has to be fruit and evidence. Kim, that's kind of back to your question, what we're talking about. Labor, fruit, and entrance. If you have labor, entrance, and fruit, then you have a measure. People see it. So if somebody said, you know, then are you this to us? I'd say, well, let's wait and see. If you see the fruit of it, why should I walk in and say this is what I am? In fact, the Lord told me back in 1985 when the revelation came on this, he said, do not magnify the gift. I'm up in Garden City, Kansas, praying before going and ministering to a congregation. The Lord said, do not magnify the gift. Lest when you go and minister, they say, who gave him a gift? But rather go minister Christ in that gift. And then when you're gone, they will say, He must have a gift. Does that make sense? If you magnify the gift, well, I have this as a gift. Why say that? I'm a prophet. Well, then have a seat. You know, let's not go by that. Let's see Christ in you. If you labor among the people and you minister that way, they're going to see it. They're going to receive it. That's true for any of these gifts, by the way. No, I'm not saying deny your gift. Please don't hear what I'm saying. But I'm saying don't magnify it. Don't magnify it. He didn't say deny it. He didn't say be ashamed of it. And the Lord told me don't magnify the gift. Don't make it the focus. Make Christ the focus. So, even among apostles, not all the apostles have the same commission. So, if that's the case, they're not going to have all the same authority, are they? And we need to discern that. If one's apostle over here, then make him an apostle somewhere. That's what Paul said. He said, though I'm I'm apostle to others, may not be apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. So he knew he wasn't apostle to everybody. That's a new thought, isn't it? We think Paul was apostle to everybody. He said, No, I'm not. But I am to you, because that was his measure. And he said that he planted Apollos watered. So planting the doctrines of Christ, strengthening the church and training, these are some of the works of an apostle. Imparting. Paul said, I desire to come to you that I might impart to you some spiritual gift, that in the end you may be established. And then he's so humble he said that we might be mutually encouraged. You encouraging me and me encouraging you. But there was an impartation that would come, an equipping. A guilt, of course, obviously, because of the gift to develop the leaders. Paul also saw him laying on of hands. He said to Timothy, stir up the gift of God that was in you by the laying on of hands. When we lay hands upon you through the presbytery. So there's an ordaining. He told Titus, ordain elders in every city. He told them to do that work. Paul and Barnabas did that. To set in order, he said, Todd, set in order that which is lacking and coming behind. There's a means of setting in order which would be part of ordaining and setting leaders and elders. The father. This is a big one, I believe. Paul presented himself as a father to the churches. He said, You don't have many fathers. He didn't say you only have one father. He said, You don't have many fathers. Because a father would give of themself. Here's what he would say: He says, The children don't lay up for the Father, the Father lays up for the children. So if somebody's a true apostle, they're not there to get something out of it. In fact, they might go for a while at their own expense. That's what Paul did. So today, modern day, you see a big emphasis on apostles, big titles, and people demanding money and sow money into my ministry. And you know, you'll be blessed and get anointing if you sow into my ministry. That's false. That's not New Testament. You don't have to do that. In fact, Paul said, I would rather work with my hands and labor in order to be able to come to you. So ATI, Apostolic Teams International, every time we go work with a congregation or church somewhere, the first two or three years, we go at our own expense. In other words, that congregation's not giving us anything. We don't ask for anything. When we went down, Ron Jones will tell you, when we went down to Florida and started ministering to them, he said, Why are you here? You know, why would you come here? You know, we're not giving you any offerings, we're not doing anything for you. So, well, let me ask you a question. I ask. If somebody walked into your congregation, wouldn't you just pastor them? Did God not put you in our lives? Would I not just care? Would I not just give of myself? And so that's the idea is that he said, children don't lay up for the parents, but parents lay up for the children. He said this: he was willing to spend and be spent. So not only at his own cost, but willing to be spend himself. That's the true heart of a father, isn't it? Someone who'd give himself. That's not popularity. That's not recognition. And with it, he said, we apostles are seen as the offscom of the earth. He said, We're spectacle both of angels and of men. I asked the Lord one day, back about 1980 something, I can't remember. And I was mowing the line. I said, Lord, what about that? Why would he be spectacled of angels? I can understand spectral to men, right? Because people say, man, he's in jail all the time and he doesn't preach very well. He's hard to understand. Even Peter says he's hard to understand. Corinthians says he wasn't a great orator. Then he's a spectacle. You know, I can see that of men, because men think somebody's got authority must be highly exalted. And this poor little guy, he's uh he's the opposite of that. So he's a spectacle. But why among angels? So that was my question. And here's what came to me. See what you think. What came to me is the angels do not have to deal with the flesh like we have to deal with. They know their place. They're not trying to take Michael's place. There's not an angel in heaven trying to take Michael's place. Now you could probably say Lucifer tried to take somebody's place, God's. But there's not an angel in heaven trying to, they just they're okay. This is this is my place, this is my journey. This is what my you want me to go, I'll go. So they look at us here and all of our fighting and fussing. That's a spectacle to angels. It doesn't make sense to them. So Paul said, We're a spectacle before men and a spectacle before angels. Other aspects of the work. Uh hang on, let me back up here. Okay. Uh Receiving this ministry should make us more secure in the gospel. It should strengthen leaders. That's just part of what we would emphasize. I don't want to go into much depth there, but that's that's important as well.
Now let's talk a little bit about the prophet. I spent some time there on the apostolic and should spend a little bit of time on prophecy. Why? Because these are two gifts that get argued against. I hear uh on the internet someone say, Well, a true prophet, if it doesn't come to pass, then they must be stoned. So that's but that's true, but that's out of the Old Testament. New Testament prophets are not like Old Testament prophets, they're not intended to. How do we know that? Because it says in
1 Corinthians 14 that if anyone, if a prophet speaks, let the other sit by and judge. You didn't judge the Old Testament verb, you know, in a gathering. If they didn't come to pass, you stoned them. That's how you judged it. In the New Testament, you judge it. Why? That means it could be an error. God does not give words to prophecies today that don't need to be tested. That tells me they're not the same. In the Old Testament, they weren't tested, except did they come to pass? In the New Testament, it's different. Also, the prophets encouraged Barnabas as a prophet, encouraged the people with many words. So there was the edification, encouragement, and comfort. Not trying to just read somebody's mail. Now, God may give somebody a word of knowledge. A word of knowledge is what God would give somebody to know that they would have no other reason to know except the Holy Spirit gives it to them. That's not prophecy, that's a word of knowledge. It may be delivered by a prophet, but it's a word of knowledge. A word of wisdom is a word of God's wisdom of what He wants to do, that you would have no way of knowing. That's not necessarily a prophecy. That's a word of wisdom. Sometimes people give an exhortation and call it a prophecy. You can hear and listen. Most of what you hear are exhortations. We just need to know that. Doesn't put it down, doesn't make it less. But it should be accepted. I just see this in you, brother. I just want to encourage you. I see this. That's not necessarily a prophetic word. That's a word of exhortation. Do you follow me? So prophetic words, as a prophet, people prophesy that are not necessarily prophets. Prophets foretell, which would be like preaching, but they also a sense of foretelling. You'll see examples of that in the New Testament, of where prophets were used to speak of things that were to come. And prophets did. Anybody ever read the book by David Wilkerson called The Vision? Printed in 1976. Man, you ought to read the vision. In 1976, he had a book called The Vision. He said, There will be a day when pornography will come on the television. If you're old enough, 1976, that would never happen. He said they will check into hotels and have it popped in the hotel. And there will be pornography in the hotels. And he goes on and on and on. And I remember 1976 is going, wow. And by the by the 80s, every hotel said HBO cable. And in the hotels were these HBO programs of nudity and pornography. Everything he said in that book is amazing. He said, David Wilkerson, he's the one that wrote the book, The Cross the Switchblade. He was the Pentecostal preacher that went down and ministered right downtown in New York and won Nikki Cruz. Nicky Cruz is 89 years old still preaching. Nikki Cruz was a gang member that he won to Christ. That's a powerful story. But God used David. He was not David Wilkerson. He would be like a true prophet that he might have prophesied a word or two, but that wasn't, it was declaring. A strong word to the body of Christ to call them to Christ of what was to come. So I see there's a great place for that. You know, Agabas prophesied of the famine that was to come, you know. But prophets are used to build up, encourage, strengthen. That's why you see the prophecy in
1 Corinthians 14 are not necessarily by prophets. Prophecy can be by manifestation of the Holy Spirit, right? Paul said, I wish that all might prophesy. So the gift of prophecy or the manifestation of prophecy, you can call it a gift, the manifestation of prophecy, might come upon anyone to prophesy. It doesn't make him a prophet. But a prophet does have that call and gift, if you want to use that term, as a gift to the body of Christ. So they're not, as I mentioned, not infallible, but rather they are to be judged against the word of God, which is infallible, but judged by those who are also sitting by. Here are some examples. Judas and Silas encourage and strengthen believers in
Acts 15. Agabus warns of a coming famine in
chapter 11. Agabus warns Paul of what was going to come his way, that he would face nothing but uh persecution from city to city. And there are examples of forthelling. So there is a, or foretelling, I should say. Forthelling would be declaring the gospel, foretelling would be predicting these things that would take place. I believe in the prophetic today. I know people want, I don't know how much time I have here. People want to get something from the Lord. I better not go there. It's too deep. But I'll go ahead and say it. Just for the record. We are psychic as well as spiritual. You have a soul. That's where the psychic comes from. The soul is real. That's why we're told not to do that. We're told not to communicate with the dead. Because you could. That's weird, isn't it? You wouldn't be told not to do something if you couldn't do it. Don't even go there. Don't even be interested in it, is what the scripture tells us. So your psychic power, you can get things picked up in the spirit. So when I hear somebody ministering says, uh, does suit, the name suit, does that mean anything to you? I want to walk away from that. Because they're fishing in the psychic. Because it happened to me. I remember this was like in 1987. I was called to this place to minister, and I was in this home, and there was about 15 people there. And I had a word of the Lord for about seven of them. I was going around the room prophesying the word, and I got to about the eighth one, and I didn't have anything. But they wanted a word so badly. I could tell they were waiting. And I didn't know at the time. I felt it, sensed it, that I moved over in the psychic. And I picked up on things and I began to speak things. And I remember even asking, does this mean something to you? And it was like a year later, I went away for prayer and fasting and got Watch My Knees book on the latent power of the soul. Don't read that unless you're in Christ College and you finish all the others and you're mature in the Lord. Because he's strong in the gifts, but he points out how the psychic can work. And that little book floored me. I was on my floor, went away with praying and fasting, weeping and asking God to forgive me. For moving over into the psychic because I saw that I had done that. And people don't know about this. So I don't talk about it a lot because I don't want anybody to not move in the things of the spirit. But I'm also watching when people are moving over in the psychic. Okay, here it comes. It's about to hit you right now. It's gonna hit you right now. That's all psychic. If it's God, you don't have to tell them. That was God. That's all you had to say. You don't have to say it's about to hit you. So when you see people working people up, To me, it's strange fire. It's serious. I wouldn't do that. I do believe in the prophecy, I do believe in all the prophetic, but we've got to keep it balanced with the word of God because what that does, that draws you to that prophet. Anybody is drawing things to themselves. In the New Testament, they didn't draw anything to themselves. In fact, they would have been outcast. So we're not looking to draw things. David Wilkerson, no one drew to him to get a word from him, but he was a true prophet. I believe in prophetic ministry. Please encourage me. Hear me. I believe in prophecy, but I'm very cautious when somebody starts feeling. I don't teach that as much as I should teach it because I don't want to teach it on Sunday morning. But we need to know about the prophetic. So I got off there a little bit, but let it be what it is. Okay.
The evangelist. Please, please. Yeah, example a word of wisdom would be uh when Peter is in a trance, the Holy Spirit said, gave him a word of knowledge. There's two there's Two guys or three guys at the gate. I can't remember how many now. And I want you to go do such and such. Like Ananias, the Lord told him what to do. Okay? So it would be the direction of where to go, of what God's going to do, not what has happened. A word of knowledge would be of the present or the past. So Jesus would have perceived their heart and known something. That would have been like a word of knowledge. Okay. But to know of what God's going to do. Would be in the future. It would be a word of wisdom in that sense. A wisdom meaning what God would know to do, not us. So I could give you uh examples, probably, and I haven't taught on this in a long time. I give you examples of things that happen to me, uh, more on the word of knowledge. I've had more opportunities on the word of knowledge than a word of wisdom. I believe a word of wisdom is not necessarily declared. The Lord gives it to you. I believe you could prophetically declare a word of wisdom if you know what I'm saying. You could speak it out. Uh but a word of wisdom God would give to you to know what is going to come and what's going to happen. You might not necessarily prophesy. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. I uh when I was in Honduras in 1985, all we heard is how great this church was. Can't wait till you get to that church. All the other missionaries that go to the church. When we, my wife and I got there, we were supposed to teach that afternoon on marriage. And now Mission Field, you've got open-air meetings and a kind of a, you know, you got little brick walls, but people can come in. But it was so chaotic because Sunday afternoon. People getting up and walking up and down. What we're trying to teach? Dogs were coming in. I've never seen so much disruption. It was terrible chaos. I went back to the room where we were staying with a team of about 15. I got on my face, went into intercession. And when I did, I saw a woman in a red dress. So this would be a word of knowledge. And she was going from hut to hut into the houses of the leaders. So I came back that night, and everybody on the mission trip gets up and tells a little bit about, you know, give a little word of exhortation. Want to hear from everybody, you know. So the team gets up. Now I was supposed to preach that night. And I'm telling you, it was just as bad. Probably 500 people there. It was just as chaotic as you could be. I've never seen that kind of thing. Even when the missionary we were there with trying to speak, kids going, loudness going, chaos going, it was terrible. So I get up to preach and I say, today, when I was here, there was chaos. Interpreters tell him. And I prayed, and I saw a woman in a red dress. And she's here tonight. And she's been going from cabin or house to house among leaders in the church. And God has called to repentance. It got quiet. I'm telling you, you could have heard anything. No dog bark, no one moved. And all of a sudden, the women and men sat separately. The women got on their face and began to weep. All the women did, and all the men did. And at the same time, there were five guys who came in the back in black leather jackets. They came and stood like this. And I got afraid because there's like they came to dare me. And the Holy Spirit said, this is a word of knowledge, that the leader was trying to stop this other young man over here from the purposes of God. And I called him out. I said, and you, God calls you to this poor translator. He's having to translate all this. And I said, You God is calling you to repentance, for you have tried to stop this man's journey in Christ. And God called you to repentance. What you gonna do? And he fell on his knees and still repenting. The young man came forward. The pastor finally gets up and he says, I know this is all to be true. The church went into repentance. The pastor himself was not one of those leaders. But she had that woman had gone in those places. And he knew this young man that was training for the ministry, and that this gang was pulling him out. Now that's a word of knowledge. I could give you other examples of word of knowledge, something you wouldn't have any way of knowing. But God used it powerfully. Never been back to that place. It's in uh uh Honduras somewhere, nation of Honduras. It is. It is a clear call back to God. And so, in that sense, uh, don't misunderstand. Most prophecy is used to exhort, to encourage, and comfort.
First Corinthians 14 says, Prophecy is given to exhort, to edify, and to comfort. So a word of knowledge delivered in that would have brought them to Christ. So I would have been, I don't know that I'm a prophet, but I would have been moving as that in that sense, because it was called him to Christ out of a word of knowledge. It was not a prophecy. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of examples of prophecy. How many of y'all have received examples of prophecy? If you receive prophecies, you can you Uh yeah. I guess I mean that kind of they exhort and they encouraged you, they strengthened you, they see what God's doing in you. That's words of exhortation, comfort, and edification, right? Yeah. And and yeah, some of it would be about the future. Some of it would be. Uh, and that would be part of the prophecy. So I'm not trying to get technical, but I want you to see. I want you to see. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want it, I don't want you to to say that it could even come all together. A word of knowledge and a word of wisdom could be declared, you know. And and brought forth. But there is a distinction. There is a there's a distinction on the word of knowledge. Um, I think that's a good idea. Sometimes you look back and you see the word. I just looked at a yellow sheet of paper here of Wayne Drain giving me one for 23 and 24 back before that. And I you could look at it, but it would speak more clearly to me now, because you can look back at it and see what Yeah. Yeah. Uh very good. Well I know I kind of got bog bogged down on the prophecy, uh, but I think those are two real important gifts, the po the apostle prophet, because th those are the most ones that are resisted. I think evangelists, I don't think anybody questions that. You know, that's just, hey, we we need evangelists. Uh, you know, they not only share the gospel, but there's distinctive call and equipping people. Uh Philip, of course, was a great example of the evangelist. Uh So I think the area of pastors is the sustained care, the feeding. It's really the guarding, the caring of the sheep. What does a shepherd do? A shepherd feeds, he guides, he protects, he guards, doesn't he? So biblically, that is the grace that's given to a shepherd. Uh can other people shepherd? Obviously they can, but this oods out of them. It just comes out of who they are. And so we understand that. You know, you ask me year after year, people say, what's the greatest need of destiny life? I say pastoral care. I've been saying that for four or five years or longer. I still say it. Uh, pastoral care, the biggest need that we have. It's it's a huge need. Uh so even though the New Testament uh does not present a modern soul senior pastor, you know, you've already talked about some of this, I think, as the model of church, there is an idea of elder set with a lead person among them. And so we here at Destiny Life function that way. Uh, interestingly enough. You would have noticed over the last several years, probably since 2022 or 23, even though it had begun a long time before that, you've seen where Jonathan is really co-leading with me out of this similar gift and grace. And he leads all of our staff meetings. I'm there, but he leads all of them. The really the administrative lead of this house on both campuses comes from Jonathan and the team. So he's really transitioning. Without even trying. You know, we're not, it's just happening. Someone asked me last night, one of our elders' wives asked me uh about something going on. And I said, I don't know. And I'm I'm glad I don't know. And uh that means it's being handled. And I and I'm comfortable with that because it is a part, it's not in a part of the lesson, but it's part of I want you to see that there is also generational mindset. We want all generations, you know. I know that it has to be such a transition that when people say it, they go, pfft. We've seen that for the last five years, you know. Otherwise, you announce something. Oh, what's it gonna look like? No, we modeled it and then point it out. Oh, that's what it is. That's okay. And God ordains generations, doesn't he? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And of course,
2 Timothy 2, too, right? Paul said to Timothy, the things you've heard me say, you observe what I said. Teach faithful people who'll be able to teach others for generations, right there. I can tell you, we have the younger generation in the 20s. We have the 30 years generations. Isn't that great? And the 40 and 50-year-old generations. And then you have some of us. But it it's great because you see what God is doing. That's kind of off of the point, but it's really not, because it you do have a lead, you do have a you do have a lead uh elder, which I've served as that and continue to do so, but it's gradually shifting, if you know what I'm saying. Uh in in that and and I know for some reason I saw my life in 15-year increments. I don't know how I did, but when I turned 40, I saw from 40 to 55, I'd primarily remain pastoral, even though we were already working with other churches. That would be my focus. From 55 to 70, I would be working more with the churches. And then from 70 to 85, I'd be pouring into leaders. So I'm in that transitional time right now. And so far, it's so it's worked. I'm not trying to make it work. It just works. So I don't know how long I'm gonna live. I don't know that 85 means anything. I trust the Lord, whatever He wants to do. I don't care, you know. But Yeah, yeah, that was transitional, had started already. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're all overseers, but in in the sense of really uh being a spiritual father is kind of more what it is. Overseer is a spiritual father. I mean, I'm there. Uh like if there's a crisis, I'm there, you know. You're kind of off the subject here, but I'm glad you're mentioning that because we would have what we would call a Paul Timothy model. Uh most every church I know of has used a Moses-Joshua model. Did you Moses dies and Joshua must leave? Or Moses resigns, which is the same, and then when they resign, they can't even be in the same building. They have to actually leave. You know that to be be true. I can't be there because I will steal the hearts of the people. What? I mean it doesn't make sense. That means you didn't release it. You see, if you release it, then they Yeah, it's man is so positional. We fight that all the time. No, he has not. We're trying, thank you for saying that. We really do. We're trying to, how do we identify, and we do have it identify, the DNA that we can share our hearts with other congregations that are interested. And I'm gonna tell you it, I'm you know, subject in here, but it really is a discipleship aspect. Because it's every member of minister discipling them to be not position, but placement. All of those things is a big part of the DNA. Because otherwise, then you have competition. If you're positional, then I'm afraid you're going to take my position. But if I'm not positional, if I'm my place, you can't take my place. So I can give room for somebody else's place and know that we're laboring together. So it it it is a whole, it's an it's yeah, it's a whole different mindset. So Uh well, we don't have to say much about the teacher, I don't think. The teacher, you know, obviously teaches, explains the word of God. They give instruction. Uh powerfully needed. They focus. I mean, Bob uh Disc Rude is a good example of a teacher. Uh he's line up on line, precept upon precept. Uh he's taught in the class here. He's so much he's just a teacher, you know, has all of his notes. He's ready to go, and he's he's a teacher, teacher by heart. And I love, I love teachers. My wife likes to teach. She believes she's a gift to teach. I do too. I wish y'all could hear her more. Uh for the last eight years, she's not been available, but she taught alongside me for years. And when I wasn't able to be there, she would do it because she truly has a gift for it. So uh let me move on through here a little bit. Uh I'm not going to spend a lot more time here, except the idea that each of these gifts differ, but the purpose of it is to equip. the saints, to receive what Christ has placed among us and to be able to identify, okay, what are these gifts? Do I understand what apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor teach? You may not have a a full understanding, but to begin to see, wait a minute, if Christ puts those among us, then I need to embrace gifts as they minister Christ to me. We don't have to magnify them, but in that process, to be able to walk out uh in the body of Christ with accountability and seeing there's differences, but we need we need all the gifts. Not just the different five-fold do we need, but we need all the gifts in the body. And that makes the team ministry practical. There has to be an idea I need. If you can be transparent and not be vulnerable. Vulnerable means I need help. I need you. If I can't see that I need you then I'm not going to be open to a team. If I've got to have all the answers, then I'm not going to be open to team. So it's a real shared responsibility, sharing that place for God to give that not only feedback to you, but really responsibility, sharing the responsibility. And it comes because of trusted people you've trusted. They labor together. Team ministry in practice is to listen for the grace, to share the real responsibility, invest in relationship, and develop others. Let me tell you, this takes time. You can't hurl it. There's no hurry in this. And honestly, sometimes I'm burdened for other churches because I see they it's going to take 10 years for them to get there. So we need to work with it right now. Because you just can't come in and go, okay, this is what we're doing. It's got to be taught the heart for every member of minister, and the need for discipleship, a need for equipping, and to raise people up in their gifts and grace so that then they're discovered. You know, that's what I would see. Like if everybody would find their grace and gift and they were functioning out of that, then you just discover. Everybody ministers here. You're not looking for fivefold, but you start seeing them among them. We don't want to make a distinction so that they think they're better, but rather they're needed. So as they minister to the people and sharing out their gifts, it seemed when the Lord sent six full-time pastors in here in 1986, from October 86 to January of 87, six couples moved here, said God told them to come be with Glenn Amy. They resigned their churches and moved here. In their 30s, no promise, no staff, nothing. I didn't know they were coming. They didn't know each other was coming. They all came within a two-month period. That radically I had been preaching, every member's a minister. You don't have to get a paycheck to be a man and woman of God. It's like God said, okay, I'm just going to test you. They came in. No longer were they called Pastor Tom or Pastor Kurt or Pastor, they were just Kurt and Tom and Dick and Dick Chapman. You know, they're just among us. Guess what? They went through the foundational classes, they went to the small groups. I didn't have to say they're pastors. People saw the gift. People get they would gather around, not physically around them, but physically. In other words, they're drawn to the gifts, the ministry. That's how you discover it. The gifts are there. The fruit is there. Why? They're pouring into people. I'm not giving them something to do, you know. They're functioning out of who they are. If you can get the body of Christ to do that in every gift, then you discover who they are. That's how it works. If I appoint somebody, because this is no, I want to discover and give room for it. If I give room for it, they'll grow into it. And that's why we're constantly trying to share the idea of developing others in this whole process. And it's a full-time job just to keep that flowing. That's why new believers coming into the body can really grow into every aspect. We just say, okay, how can how can we take a brand new believer all the way to every gift and calling? That's part of Christ's college. The 101, the 201, the 301, and the 401, and now the 501 really is a part of you could be in a local house and be released in any kind of ministry that God has called you to in that local house without feeling like you've got to be sent off to seminary somewhere. Because sometimes you send off to a seminary. I'm not saying don't go online and get a degree. I'm not saying that. But if you're sent off to a seminary, you're not ministering. You're going to school. You know, it's like where you're learning, where you where you're giving, and it's in the house. This is like a nursery. This is uh a place to grow the trees, right? And so that whole aspect of it is to see the body grow up in all the different care of the house where every member is seen as taking a meaningful part. And so it becomes your place. What is your place? Well, I'm gonna wrap it up here with some questions, okay? We're gonna ask you some questions. Out of tonight, the question would be maybe where you are, okay, in your understanding. Uh, I hope you have a desire to just pour into people because that's where you're going to see it. And we need each other to even tell each other your gifts and graces. When these two have already said someone said to them, they just saw what was there. We could do this easily in the class. Do you know what? You could, if you knew each other well enough, you could see the gifts and graces in somebody and actually encourage them to move into that. Uh that's what I desire of the class. And I also desire that you would say that nothing would keep you from being fully fulfilled in Christ. I asked someone today, do you feel fulfilled in the work of Christ? If not, what's holding you back? Are we holding you back? Do you have entrance? Is there a place? What needs to happen? And it was a powerful conversation that we had. Because we want to see every individual grow into that. And I want you to have that before you would leave this evening to say, okay, what is my place? Not what's my position, but what's my place? It comes out of your gift and grace. And I'm telling you, that is every member, a minister, the body of Christ, the whole body, has the grace that we need. We don't need, we don't need, we're not lacking. At all. The gifts are among the body. See that? Let me pray over you. Father, I thank you for this group. I pray that tonight's not just a class. I pray it's a stirring of the gifts and grace in each one of them. And those that are watching this, Lord, later, I ask you that it have the same impact and importation in their life. Stir our hearts to be the church you've called us to be. Every member and minister, growing in the grace of the Lord. Let no one despise their calling and their grace. But according to that calling, live it out in a way that we grow up into Christ the head, being willing to be equipped and embrace those you've given to us. Yes, the fivefold ministry who labor as elders, and others among us, the fivefold ministry who are not ordained as elders, we draw and are equipped by them as well. By being around them and the grace of God in them, helping to adjust and grow us. Lord, I bless and I thank you for these sessions, not only tonight, but for the two weeks left. We give you the glory and the praise in Jesus' name. Amen. All right. Well, be prepared for next week. I'm sure there's any notes that he wants you to have, they'll be passed on to you. Lessons on you.
